The Connection Between Dental Procedures and Your Health with Dr. Leslie Douglas of DNA Connexions - Episode 242

Important links!

To order Your own testing, including testing for Lyme and more:
https://dnaconnexions.com/

Listen to my episode on whole-body thermography, where my discoveries about this old root canal first began:
https://sandykruse.ca/episodes/episode-225-thermography-testing-insights-from-sharon-edwards-of-thermography-medical-clinic

Join my Substack, where you'll get a glimpse of my upcoming book:
https://sandykruse.substack.com/publish/home?utm_source=substack

Grab my Essential Thyroid Guide (this is a simplified guide and not a clinical book):
US:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CW4X3WJD
Canada:  https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0CW4X3WJD

Oral health can be a silent overseer of your overall well-being, and we're here to shed light on a connection that often goes unnoticed. Join me and Dr. Leslie Douglas, the Laboratory Director at DNA Connextions, as we unravel the potential health implications of root canals and other dental procedures. Dr. Douglas's expertise in molecular biology equips us with an in-depth understanding of PCR-based tests that identify and quantify a wide array of microorganisms in the oral cavity. This episode promises to open your eyes to the unseen world of oral pathogens and their possible link to systemic health issues.

My personal journey with dental health, including the aftermath of a root canal and mercury filling removal, is a testament to the profound impact dental procedures can have on one's vitality. Together with Dr. Douglas, we explore how PCR technology, often used for Lyme disease panels, can be a game-changer in assessing oral health. We address the controversial topic of dead tooth material potentially affecting the immune system, touching upon sobering concerns such as thyroid cancer. Through a comprehensive oral panel, we gain insights into the balance of microorganisms and draw parallels between oral and systemic health.

Dental materials are more than just tools of the trade; they can be harbingers of health issues if not chosen wisely. We discuss the importance of personalized testing to understand individual reactivity to metals and non-metals found in common dental products. By sharing real-life cases, like the decision to choose ceramic over titaniu

Chapters

• 0:02 Oral Pathogens and Dental Health
• 18:44 Dental Pathogens and Oral Health
• 35:31 Microbial Analysis and Oral Health
• 51:31 Dental Health and Microbial Analysis
• 56:44 Bio-Individuality and Oral Health
• 1:08:04 Materials and Products in Dentistry

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hi everyone, it's me, sandy Cruz of Sandy K Nutrition, health and lifestyle queen. For years now, I've been bringing to you conversations about wellness from experts from all over the world, whether it be suggestions and how you can age better, suggestions in how you can age better, biohacking, alternative wellness these are conversations to help you live your best life. I want to live a long, healthy and vibrant life, never mind all those stigmas that, as we reach midlife and beyond, we're just going to shrivel up and die with some horrible disease. Always remember balanced living works. I really look forward to this season. Hi everyone, welcome to Sandy Kay Nutrition, health and Lifestyle Queen.

Speaker 1: 1:05

Today with me I have Dr Leslie Douglas. She is the Laboratory Director for DNA Connections, and today we're going to be talking all about dental procedures and the potential for overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria. We are also going to be exploring my own results of a and I guess it's a 19 year old extraction of a root canal. Yeah, this is a big deal, you guys, and I'm going to pause for a second and say excuse my voice. I have never left my preamble to such last minute. This podcast releases on Monday and I'm recording my preamble on Sunday because I was away in Europe for 10 days, got home last Saturday, got COVID and have been really quite sick. So today I'm feeling pretty good, but my voice is just not the same yet, so please excuse my voice. It's also Thanksgiving today in Canada, so happy Thanksgiving to all of you who are in Canada and who celebrate. So I'm not going to spoil the conversation, but most of you know my story who listen to my podcast. You know that I had a root canal extracted without any major issues, but I had it extracted in the spring while I wanted to have it tested to see what was actually in there, and there's more and more evidence showing that these root canals can cause micro inflammation in the body. Since that root canal, I've had many issues. Obviously, I'm not going to get into this here, because I want you to listen to this conversation with Dr Leslie. I'm also going to ask for you to please share this, because it's just so important for people to be aware of risks for any procedure that we undergo any one. I had no idea of the risks of root canals and this is also why I will personally never get another root canal again. If I have to get rid of the tooth, I'll get rid of the tooth and that's that. So please share this. Also, I'm going to ask for you to rate and review my podcast wherever you listen, if it's on Spotify, if it's on Apple, apple especially. If you go and click on the podcast and scroll down a little bit, you could put in the number of stars and then write a review with a few kind words. This helps me to continue to get amazing guests each and every week.

Speaker 1: 4:04

I am also a writer. I'll ask that you join my Substack. It is sandycruzesubstackcom S-A-N-D-Y-K-R-U-S-Esubstack, s-u-b-s-t-a-c-kcom, where you're going to actually be in a group where you're going to be able to read about explorative topics as it relates to wellness. I feel like we live in this world of telling, these days, where everyone's telling you this is healthy, this is not healthy, and so what I do is I explore many different topics of wellness relating to the body, the mind, the spirit, the soul, not just the science, because science is only one small little part of our wellness. So join me there. It will eventually be part of my new book that will be coming out at some point. It's sitting with a literary agent right now. Also, follow me on all of my social media channels. You're going to find me on any social media channel pretty much Sandy Kay Nutrition everywhere.

Speaker 1: 5:22

And now let's cut on through to this amazing interview with Dr Leslie Douglas of DNA Connections. Hi, everyone, welcome to Sandy K Nutrition, health and Lifestyle Queen. Today with me I have Dr Leslie Douglas. She is a geneticist Did I say that right? Geneticist? It's so hard to say that and molecular biologist, and she is the principal investigator and laboratory director for DNA Connections.

Speaker 1: 5:54

Dna Connections is a top US-based company focusing on bacterial, viral, fungal and parasitic molecular-based detection assays. Dr Douglas' professional focus is the research and development of PCR-based testing, direct DNA, including Lyme disease tests, apoe tests, genotyping tests, comprehensive oral tests, gluten sensitivity tests and propensity tests. But today we are going to be talking mostly about dental procedures and the potential for overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria. Now, most of you have been following me for a while know that I recorded a while back with Dr Kelly Blodgett about biological dentistry and I'm so fortunate that through him I found DNA connections and I really feel honored to be able to be just introduced to people who are doing such amazing things and changing health and wellness as we know it. And today we're going to talk a little bit about some of my own test results, but we're going to get into that later with Dr Leslie Douglas and with that, welcome, Leslie. Can I call you Leslie?

Speaker 2: 7:27

Absolutely. Thank you so much, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 7:32

I'm happy to have you on. I mean, you are so knowledgeable about all these tests, so we want to know more, and people who have been following me just want to know more and understand more. So who better to discuss this with than you? So let's get into your background first, because I always like to hear about how you got into this yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:10

So during undergraduate I was really into the sciences I ended up with I was raised in hawaii and I ended up with a bachelor's in biology from the university of hawaii knew I wanted to go into some sort of molecular based research. I'm just know that type of very analytical person. So I then went on to graduate school. I received a PhD in genetics and molecular biology and took it from there. I was at DNA Connections just a little over 10 years ago and right now we have plenty of panels, but at that time it was just some smaller panels and we started working on a line panel. So the panel that we're going to be talking about today is the comprehensive oral and, as we were discussing, you know, people don't have the idea that dentistry can be bad for you. Some dentistry can affect people very adversely, in addition to attracting and being just a site of persistence of my firms that are able to create biofilms and congregate on these restorations and inside the oral cavity, on these restorations and inside the oral cavity.

Speaker 2: 9:25

Some of these organisms are commonly found in the mouth, are generally benign. Some of these organisms have been scientifically linked to chronic conditions and different characteristics of the organisms benign to entirely pathogenic. You know we find them all in the oral cavity. So the panel that we're going to be talking about today is the comprehensive oral. It's a PCR-based panel. It has 88 microbes, 88 potential pathogens, as 88 microbes, 88 external pathogens, inclusive of bacteria, viruses, parasites and fungi. Each one is what we call a direct testing method. So we're looking for the DNA of the organism itself, we target live cellular material and we can basically test any sample from the oral cavity. And we can basically test any sample from the oral cavity. We can do teeth blood, permutational blood, which we can get into in a minute, sex-specific, or we even have a full mouth serving with a product called Super Floss whole panel.

Speaker 1: 10:42

You just floss with the specialized product that's in our comprehensive kit send it back to us and we can do a full mouth survey of pathogens that we find in your mouth. I think it's a good place to start to. You know, just say, for those of you who are not in the wellness industry, understanding that we have bacteria everywhere is really important, and it's not necessarily that oh no, she has bacteria, bacteria is everywhere, it's everywhere. When you say pathogenic, I know you're speaking of the overgrowth of specific bacterias that, in an overgrowth stage, can be harmful. Right, does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 11:34

Yeah, well, I mean every organism in each of the organisms that were specially selected for this comprehensive oral panel. It's based on the characteristics of the organism. So we go from denying commonly found in the oral cavity to is it microbial resistant? Is it multi-microbial resistant? Does it produce toxins, you know, and it killed you? Uh, so it goes from benign to entirely pathogenic, that it doesn't belong in the oral cavity whatsoever. Okay, so when you're dealing with these particular particular restorations that have been done that in the industry are being corrected or extracted in your case, there's a certain ways that are recommended to treat the area to keep these organisms from becoming a systemic issue, for those that it's already a systemic issue. Then there's organisms that are involved in chronic conditions. You know you've got your campers or yourcus species that are related to infection, chronic infection. Certain streptococcus species are related to cardiac issues. So for you know these chronic conditions where people just they just don't understand why they are suffering from it. It could be just borax in your mouth, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 13:28

I think it's before we get into all of this. It's a good. For those of you who maybe don't know what happened, I'll try and make it kind of quick. But I had a root canal extracted. It kind of quick, but I had a root canal extracted and what prompted me was I had this root canal for almost 19 years.

Speaker 1: 13:51

So to backtrack, after the birth of my second child, one day my three bottom teeth, in the very front, they just crumbled. This is why nutrients are really important when you're pregnant. This is long before I was a practitioner and then I had a cracked tooth right around the same time. So obviously I had a weakened system after giving birth. There's no other way to describe it. Your teeth don't just crumble in your mouth unless you have nutrient deficiencies period. You can't explain that. So I was told you have to have a root canal, right? This is going back almost 19 years. So I did it and then fast forward.

Speaker 1: 14:38

Since then I've been diagnosed with mitral valve prolapse, with mild regurgitation, which I don't have in my family. There's no genetics, but a heart murmur. This was after I had the root canal. I've also had thyroid cancer. I've also had a breast fibroadenoma. So I've had a number of things.

Speaker 1: 15:01

I am a big believer that it's always going to be multifactorial. There were a lot of things going on in my life, so you can't just say it's one thing, but did this root canal contribute to these weaknesses that manifested into issues, right? So then I went and had a thermography full body thermography which showed inflammation in the area where I had this root canal. That was this year, in 2024. So I thought, okay, it's time now I feel like I'm in a healthy state. I think it's time to take this out, even though I had no direct, obvious symptoms.

Speaker 1: 15:51

So I extracted it. And here we are today where we're going to talk about what we found, which I think so many people are interested in. And the one big question, leslie, is how do you even test? So what we did, my dentist made sure that it was put in a, so I had two roots plus the tooth in a sterile bag that I put in the freezer and then I waited for the kit and then I sent it off in the kit, like, how do you get DNA from like an old, like it was sitting in the freezer? So this is all very fascinating to me and I think we should explain it.

Speaker 2: 16:37

Well, it's about you know. I mean there's some people you know. I mean maybe when you went to your dentist and said, you know, I'd like to take this tooth that has been treated. I mean there's some people you know. I mean maybe when you went to your dentist and said, you know, I'd like to take this tooth that has been treated. I mean it has a root canal, it's dead but it's stable, and your dentist must have looked at you like what you want to pull out a perfectly good tooth. I mean there are millions of practitioners that are called endodontists and they make a career in root canal services.

Speaker 2: 17:09

So what is a root canal? Okay, a root canal is when either the tooth is okay let me say, I'm a PhD, I'm not a dentist okay, so from my understanding, a root canal is when the tooth is decayed to the point that to save it they need to kill it, and when they save it, they're essentially saving the structure. So what they do is they access the tooth and they use kind of like these little pipe cleaners and they put them down into the canals of the teeth and they sort of twizzle it. And they pull out the canals of the teeth and they sort of twizzle it right and they pull out the blood supply and the nerve. So it is basically it's it's difficult, okay. And then they with different types of material, kind of in a generalized category called better purchase, okay, uh oh, before they fill it with better purchase, they actually use dilute bleach to clean out those canals. They literally take bleach off the shelf, they dilute it and they clean out the canals and then they stuff them full of this product. It's like a rubber or some sort of resin. There's different variations of them called gutter perchance. So it's a really essentially long filling along the length of that tooth in the roots and then you put a crown on top. Sometimes they need to do a buildup where they put in a metal post for more structure, because now it's dead bone and they put a crown on top.

Speaker 2: 18:44

So some people are absolutely fine in theory with a root canal procedure. They're healthy, it doesn't bother them, it doesn't, you know, cause any kind of inflammatory issues. Okay, that would be, I guess, a lucky percent. But think about it. So this dead corn material is now basically disrupting your immune system. Your immune system is kind of like wow, sandy, what is that? What is that in your lower right causing your inflammation. It's always kind of on the immune system's radar to take care of it. Now, because your immune system was entertained by that, is that when you develop thyroid cancer, right. So you know it's self versus non-self. That is a big pile of non-self materials, dead as dead. It should be removed.

Speaker 2: 19:46

But, like I'll tell you, I had a crowd at my dentist not that long ago and it was giving me sensitivity, and immediately he's like, oh, maybe you need a root canal. I said no, no, if I need a root canal, you're pulling it. I would never get a root canal. That's my personal from what I know. That's my personal belief. I would never do that, anyway. So there are many, many people like you that talk to me, that talk to Dr Bludgett that is becoming more schooled in holistic dentistry and the restorations in your mouth can affect your entire immune system, your immune balance and your overall health.

Speaker 2: 20:27

So what we do? So we have this comprehensive oral panel and it's like I said, it's a PCR panel, so we target the DNA of the organisms itself. There's 88 organisms, like I said, and some dentists keep our kids in their offices and some people like you, they care about us and they order a kit. You can have your kit on hand when you go to the dentist's office. It comes with everything that they need for collection, whether it's going to be bone, tooth, blood tissue. It comes with sterile plastic where the sample is deposited into the sterile plastic where it is packaged up, depending on the sample type, according to the instructions that come in the kit. It includes prepaid shipping to send it back to us by UPMs.

Speaker 2: 21:24

If you can't ship back the sample immediately, then you freeze it. The freezing process basically just stalls any bacterial overgrowth. So I have people that hear about this procedure and they say, oh, my dentist put it in a Ziploc bag and it's sitting on my counter in the kitchen. Like, yeah, that's not going to work. Ziplocs aren't sterile and with room temperature you'll have bacterial overgrowth. So what's there will just flourish. So we recommend freezing it until you can send it back to our laboratory. Once it comes back to the laboratory, it's checked into the lab and we go through several stages of extraction as well as quantification of the resultant, this PCR-based plate to amplify individually the organisms that are on the panel. The panel results which we're going to go over. Your specific results show not only how much of the organism, which organisms we detected, how much of the organism we detected, and the algorithm takes into account, like we said, the characteristics of the organism and its overall potential impact in your oral cavity and systemically as well. It's a lot.

Speaker 1: 23:08

It is a lot. It is a lot, it is a lot. Now I have to ask is it possible for it to be wrong like false positives? I know you explained. Obviously, if the sample is tainted, that's a factor. But if the sample was immediately put into a sterile bag and then put into the freezer, if you follow the instructions, is it possible to get wrong results?

Speaker 2: 23:37

Sure, so that's a great question. So PCR, which is the polymerase chain reaction, which is what we do to detect the DNA of the individual organisms, it's inherently specific, and so what that means is that if the organism is present, the reaction proceeds and you're getting positive. And then it's again how positive were you? If the organism is not present, there is no reaction that proceeds. And you know there's a lot of things that we do to ensure that we don't get false positives. Pcr has a starting point, and that's kind of like the secret sauce, as our owner says. The starting point are called primers and the primers sit down on the DNA of the organism itself. That's where the reaction begins. So when that DNA is not present, the primers don't anneal, is what they call it, so the reaction does not proceed.

Speaker 1: 24:44

Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. I'm not a molecular biologist but I think I get what you're saying. I think I get it. Now here's the other thing, and I know people are going to ask okay, this is kind of getting confusing to ask this question, but how do we know if these pathogens are dormant or active? Would it be the amount that is found? Or like I don't know if I'm asking the question correctly Like, is it possible for these pathogens so they're in? Like, is it possible for these pathogens so they're in, basically in levels? Because you guys and we will show this, so if you want to watch it on YouTube or on Rumble, I will have a link to all of this. But you provide in the report levels. Does that mean how active that is In that DNA, in that piece of DNA, that tooth?

Speaker 2: 25:55

It's more quantity, it's more quantity. So we have another panel. This might help. We have another panel. It's the Lyme disease panel. Okay, so Lyme disease is called by bacteria and when we detect a positive or say a negative, when we detect a positive, people ask well, is it active infection? So we target the DNA of Lyme organisms. Organisms, so the so pcr, okay, the primers. The start point of the reaction it's looking for a target, a target within the entire genome of this organism. So the genome of the organism that causes Lyme, borrelia burgdorferi, is a million base pairs and that's small, genome-wise that's small. But within that million base pairs we target between 250, about 250,000, 250 and about 1,200 base pairs. So the idea of it being like degraded, sloughed off DNA from a dead and kind of, you know, decaying organism, it's just statistically unlikely that the 250 base pairs out of a million that we're targeting is still intact and amplifiable. It's just statistically unlikely.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Okay, that's one of the reasons why PCR is so specific it's presence or absence. If the organism isn't there, then it's not going to proceed. So if the organism wasn't in the sample provided, it's not going to proceed. Okay, okay, it's not going to proceed.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Okay, okay, that's good. Now we know that this was extracted from my mouth. Does this mean that the organisms are gone, the microbes are gone, when it's extracted? Or does this mean it's gone systemic into my body and some of them are gone when it's extracted? Or does this mean it's gone systemic into my body and some of them are gone? Like what does it mean when we remove it? How do we know?

Speaker 2: 28:18

So the first thing that you're doing when you remove a root canal tube is that you're removing that non-cell, that foreign object that's been entertaining your immune system. So that's number one. So immediately your immune system is like it's like a relief, it's gone, yeah. So we do recommend that. You know any dentist can do extractions, any dentist can, you know, can perform cavitational surgery. But we do recommend there are groups and what they call holistic dental practitioners that understand, like Dr Bledgett, who understand that when you remove a tooth or when you clean out a cavitation, that there is a possibility that the organisms can escape systemically. So they clean it out with lasers, they clean it out with ozone therapy.

Speaker 2: 29:24

It's not just kind of pulling the tooth and you're good. It's not just kind of pulling the tooth and you're good. It's about the healing process as well as the procedure to remove or replace or correct for your dentistry. When you have metal fillings replaced, you certainly don't want. When they're grinding out that metal filling that contains mercury, you don't want to be and the dentist doesn't want giving any medical advice in this podcast.

Speaker 1: 30:12

We are simply just providing you with information so that you can go and explore and educate yourself in this area. That's the whole reason I do these podcasts. What I did in advance was kind of made sure that I was cleaned up, let's just say, before I had the extraction. So I'm a big believer as a practitioner in toxic load and toxic burden and I do believe and this is my opinion that when you do have a procedure like this, you want to be in a healthy state. You don't want that bucket to overflow. So I have my own protocol on what I did before I had the extraction. Now I have a dental surgeon here where I am. He's not a biological dentist per se, but I trust him and I think trust is very important. And biological dentistry I think more and more are coming to be, but there's not a ton of them, right? I would love to see more. So taking accountability for your own wellness before you undergo a procedure like that, I think is really important, don't you?

Speaker 2: 31:39

Absolutely, absolutely, and your analogy is great. Like you don't want that to overflow, you said that you, you know, had this root canal, lived with this root canal, but then you know, like you said, prepared yourself. That's really wise.

Speaker 1: 31:55

Yeah, actually, leslie, I did a lot Like. I was one of those like people who, okay, this is so weird and I have to just mention this in that whole body thermography not only did they see this, they saw, you know, some inflammation, thermogenic patterns in the lymph, which kind of makes sense right With a root canal, and this is really weird. But this kind of contributes and people don't think about this. I was doing a gel overlay on my nails for over six years. You know people put gel on top. Oh yeah, oh, leslie, listen, I did too. But when I saw that my fingertips had thermogenic patterns like who has red fingertips this is like you're talking to a girl who did gel nails for six years straight, never a break. They were my own nails, but you know, the overlay right with the light, and so when I saw that I'm like I need to prepare my body before I get this and remove as many toxins and any insults to myself as I can, so I took them out, took them off, and I also did a little bit of a drainage protocol and I did a few things just to prep my body, because I know that my dental surgeon did not use ozone I know it's preferred Dental surgeon did not use ozone.

Speaker 1: 33:28

I know it's preferred, but interesting, I have just a lot of trust in him that he did it in the right way, because he's actually worked on everybody's mouth in my family and he's very highly regarded. So I encourage people to go with who they trust and who, yeah, and experience. He's got amazing experience. So I just wanted to say that and I love Dr Kelly Blodgett. I will put his information, as well as yours, in the show notes because I did record with him. So do you think it's a good time to go through some of the stuff on my report? It's kind of juicy, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 34:11

Ready to share.

Speaker 1: 34:12

Yeah, I'm ready to share. I'm ready, we're going to share screen here. So for anybody who's just listening, we're going to talk about it and explain it as best as we can, but you can also watch as well, because what I will say 24 microbes are on my report. Just to explain, Only one of the microbes on my particular report was under the moderate risk category. Three of them were in the moderate risk category and 20 were in the high risk category as pathogenic microbes. By the way, I didn't even mention Leslie. Like I had a lot of gut issues too, which I won't get into here, Like a lot issues too, which I won't get into here, like a lot. It all kind of coincided with the same time that I had thyroid issues. So it's quite interesting the way it all kind of came together around the same time. So let's get into it.

Speaker 2: 35:26

Is this report up on your screen?

Speaker 1: 35:27

It is, it is Okay great.

Speaker 2: 35:31

So all the panels that we offer at DNA Connections there's sample reports on our website at dnaconnectionscom under resources, and each one is different. Some have, you know, particular identifiers that are in common, but each panel has a different report. So this is the report this is actually Sandy's report for the comprehensive oral and 88 organisms. So we have patient name, date of birth, who requested it and this view data is a patient request. And then we have our important dates when sample was collected, when we received it, when it was tested and when it was reported. Okay, sample type is always given.

Speaker 1: 36:21

Uh, it says unspecified, because all teeth has numbers and you didn't provide us with the actual number of the tooth, so it's unspecified original tooth oh, okay, well, for those of you who are listening, it's on because there are dr kelly blodgett actually has, um, like some pretty cool diagrams, because the teeth are living organisms that are connected to our body parts and body areas through meridians. So Dr Blodgett gets into a lot of that and you can check that out. And the tooth that was extracted was on my right side and it's the second molar from the back and it's the second molar because I had my wisdom teeth extracted. So everyone knows it's the second tooth in, not including the wisdom teeth because I don't have those. So that's the actual tooth. Well, I have no idea. 30.

Speaker 2: 37:30

Well, I have no idea. I'm about to tell you that we have 32 teeth, including our wisdom teeth, and the way that I remember it is you start on the right side, because it's the right side to start One 16, 17, 32. And one 16, 17, and 32 are your wisdom teeth.

Speaker 1: 37:45

Oh, so then 30. Okay, so anybody who's right, so anybody who really wants to look at the connections, they can.

Speaker 2: 37:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:57

You sit on different meridians. Everyone just talked to me a lot about that as well, you know, especially if you have a root canal too, sitting on meridian of, say, your thyroid, that would totally make sense.

Speaker 1: 38:12

I need to look that up. Why didn't I do that before, Leslie? Oh my God, Too many things to remember.

Speaker 2: 38:18

You know Dr Blood is shaking his head right now, I know.

Speaker 1: 38:24

Well, that's his expertise, right?

Speaker 2: 38:26

We're talking just about the report and what was found, so okay so, um, you know it's a lot of red, I know it looks really scary, okay. Um, like you said, we, it's expected we report on the ones that we detect. So, out of 88, we detected 24 organisms. All right now, um, these are based on how much of the organism was detected in relation to the overall characteristics of the organism. Um, our report for this report and I've done, I don't know, 10,000 of these our average for this report is between 12 and 17 microbes. So you are certainly above average at 24.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Great.

Speaker 2: 39:25

Yeah, additionally, the sample that gives us the most prolific reports like this are extracted root canal teeth. They are just literally, can I say, infested prolific samples for this particular panel. With respect to the number of organisms and the type that we find, we will say that the superclubs, which is the FOMOPS survey, those get pretty prolific as well, of course. Between 30 and 40 organisms, depending on the condition and the state of the oral cavity being tested. So we have some risk factors that are associated. The next risk factor is what we call it's the account. It takes into account the quantity of the organism. Okay, how much did we find with the risk factor, which is again the overall characteristics of the organism? Um, does it belong in that world cavity? Does it produce toxins? Is it microbial resistant? Does it cause periodontal disease? Is? Is it related to chronic conditions? Does it produce toxins, things like that. So the amount of the organism is measured. The overall characteristics of the organism is the pathogen risk factor. Those taken together is what we call the total risk factor and that's kind of the length and the color of these bars on the report. All right, total risk factor, and that's the kind of the length and the color of these bars on the report. Right, anything over nine is a nine or greater indicates a serious risk. Greater than 7.5, but less than nine is a moderate risk and less than that is just an average risk, again taking into account the organism and how much of it we have.

Speaker 2: 41:33

So you can have something relatively benign, say like one of these actinomyces. They're, you know, kind of involved in the commonly found in the oral cavity, you know, involved in infectious processes, but you know, for like this one, the Slendii, there was a lot of it, so that the bar gets longer, longer, okay. So what I do is I kind of like go through these different organisms again, not a doctor, phd, I'm not a medical doctor, I'm not a dentist, but you know, I mean I look, you know, and I say okay, well, I mean we've definitely got. You said you have inflammation issues. Well, that totally makes sense, because out of the five streptococcus species we have, I see three on your report. You have streptococcus mutans, streptococcus fortini, streptococcus mutans, streptococcus orgini, streptococcus intermedius and also, as far as staff goes, we have four species of staff. You only you have one Staph, staph.

Speaker 1: 42:42

I don't, I didn't.

Speaker 2: 42:45

Being involved in infective processes. Staph are common culprits. So I get a question, a lot, and I'll just head it on because I know some of your listeners are going to say well, is it MRSA which is multi-resistant, multi-resistant? We don't know, we don't test whether or not this particular stuff that we picked up in your mouth is multi-resistant or not?

Speaker 1: 43:19

Okay, I have a question about this. You're talking about MRSA. So if, okay, I have all these pathogens in a pretty high level from that tooth we already discussed that. It's probably gone. Some of it has gone systemic it's in my body Does this put me at more risk for something like MRSA if these pathogens are high, does that question even make sense?

Speaker 2: 43:58

It makes sense, but I don't know the answer to it Okay, that everything that you do to improve your immune system, like removing offending objects like a root canal tooth, is going to give your immune system the best opportunity and preparation to fight off things like that?

Speaker 1: 44:20

Okay.

Speaker 2: 44:23

But that's my own opinion, so I don't really know the answers.

Speaker 1: 44:29

But you know what I believe. There's one thing to be said about the science aspect, and then there's another thing that just makes logical sense. Right. Like logic, If my body is full of bacteria, that is not good for me and affects my immune system, it's going to put me at more risk for things like MRSA right.

Speaker 2: 44:52

It definitely would increase your susceptibility.

Speaker 1: 44:56

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 44:58

I mean the second that we are born, we are assaulted. We are assaulted with microbes, we are assaulted with viruses and parasites. It's amazing that we live 30 seconds out of the womb, honestly, yeah, and your load continues throughout your entire lifetime for everything that you are coming into contact with every single day. I mean, our bodies are just so miraculous. Some of them they're like the probiotics that people take every morning. I mean they're good for you. Know that, the probiotics that people take every morning, I mean they're good for you. Bacteria is good for you, you know, it's just. These are things that you just kind of need to educate yourself and be aware of, especially when it comes to chronic conditions, like how come some people develop a thyroid cancer with a mouthful of root canals and then some people don't. Right, everybody is going to be completely different in that custom.

Speaker 1: 45:52

You know, leslie, you're going to love this, because I interviewed a doctor and I just released the podcast, actually this week, and we were talking about how genetics come into play. And then there's resiliency and how your resiliency would be different than mine. And then you know, your bucket is a different size from my bucket and you know, like we are and I love this we are so bio-individual as humans and, as much as science does show certain things, you can't ever paint everyone with the same brush. We're all unique, so the best thing we can do is just ensure that we do things to support our wellness, you know.

Speaker 2: 46:40

Absolutely. There's a great book about that I'm trying to remember the author and it's called 10% Human. Humans are really just 10% human and 90% myocardial. It's really an interesting breed.

Speaker 1: 46:54

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2: 46:55

Yeah, I think it was like about 10 or 15 years ago 10% human.

Speaker 1: 47:00

Super interesting. Now, looking at this, okay, we see a lot of red. We know that 20 of these tested pathogens were in the high risk. Are there any of these in the red that really shouldn't be in somebody's mouth.

Speaker 2: 47:24

Like we just said, everything's going to have a different oral floor.

Speaker 1: 47:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:31

So what I do next is I take into account patient symptomology, what exactly this particular procedure was, because the bulk of the report, the body of the report, then goes into each organism detected in detail. We have a general description, symptoms of infection and these are very generalized, cdc-recommended treatment options, which is one way to go as far as response and therapy if you're going to be treated, way to go as far as response and therapy if you're going to be treated. So you know, we start with the actinomyces. Like I said, you know they are normally present in the oral cavity and we talked about how they were part of the infectious process and dental procedures. Okay, now you'll notice that each of these names pretty pretty much is two words it's genus and species. So we're not just looking at actinomyces species, we're looking at the actinomyces genus, we're looking at species that are different within the genus of actinomyces. So in you we detected actinomyces asplen, we detected actinomyces dysplasia and actinomyces geransaria, and then we go into the. So everything on the oral panel is species specific.

Speaker 2: 49:01

Okay, we have this one's in red. This one is your most prolific organism, which means it was the longest farm, which means that the combination of how much we found and the overall characteristics of this. Campylobacter gracilis this is your most dominant organism, most prolific organism, okay, and implicated in human disease, other kind of chronic conditions, including gut issues. All right, then we detected Iconella. Now this one says that it is a mensable bacteria, which means we live with it. It lives with us, it's found in the oral cavity, in the upper respiratory tract and you know there are some. It says here that it's a cause of disease in some cases and infection sites. We've got one lesser, jamela morgulora.

Speaker 2: 50:09

Rarely the cause of disease in humans. It is opportunistic, particularly in people that are immunocompromised. Look at the organisms, connect them with the patient issues and symptomologies and chronic conditions, and then that's how you discern whether or not it's something that should be treated, should be watched, should be kept in mind, or something that is just part of your neural world flora. And so that's what you do. You go one by one through the report. Uh, you know, what I found in your report which really makes sense, is that there's a lot of organisms here that are involved in periodontal disease, which is a gum disease. Now, that could have been the site of the tooth and the root canal restoration just not being happy, or it could be, I don't know that you have periodontal disease throughout the oral cavity. Has anybody ever told you that?

Speaker 1: 51:34

So here's a really interesting thing. So you know how sometimes people again this is like kind of part of your genetics. You know some people just have like weaker teeth or they get more cavities as kids. And right, I never had that. I had two cavities in my entire life and I had mercury fillings. I'm a 1970 baby, so back in the day of mercury I had those removed.

Speaker 1: 52:07

In my forties, after I had those removed in my 40s after I had thyroid cancer and I started to research, I'm like these things are probably not good. Had those removed, I hope I think carefully from what I can tell. This was when I was early 40s but I never had issues with my teeth and my, who are 87 and 78, not so bad. My mom worse than my dad. My dad has all his teeth and he's 87. So I know right, my mom has had a few implants, no-transcript. And what's interesting is I was getting a cleaning and it was very aggressive and I saw my pictures and I happened to know a hygienist and that's a whole other story. But I do have some issues with my gums or have developed issues with my gums and I know people who are listening they're like, oh, this is all hypothetical, I'm like, well, no, you can connect the dots and you can actually bring almost like a summary together and I can do that. I've actually written about this. So did a lot of my issues begin when I had the root canal? Yeah, they did, they absolutely did, and now is this the end? I think it's actually the beginning for me, leslie. I think it's the beginning of clearing out the debris that could be contributing to challenges that I may have with my health. So that was a long answer, but I have noticed some weird things with my teeth and I have noticed things that don't really make sense because I'm one of those people that's really particular about my teeth and so you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 54:12

I mean, here's another question actually, after I had the procedure, I was put on antibiotics. Now, listen, after I had the root canal extraction, after I had the root canal extraction, so I was put on antibiotics and I'm a big believer in the sandwich method as a practitioner. So, yes, we're making sure that there's nothing that's opportunistic that might overgrow by taking the antibiotics, but ensuring that I'm continuing to seed and take other, more prolific probiotics to ensure there's not, because I had, after the procedure, some gut issues, like meaning I had some, like I just you know, when you're not comfortable in your gut, most people would I can't say something specific. I can't say, oh, I had diarrhea, oh, I had constipation.

Speaker 1: 55:14

No, I just I didn't feel right in my gut and I think that going on antibiotics can do that, but what's going to happen afterwards, I don't know. I'm continuing with a protocol and I'm actually looking at doing a different protocol now that I've healed. It's been just over a month since the extraction but I don't know, as somebody who sees this kind of thing a lot, what would you do Knowing your and this is not again, it's not medical advice, it's just saying in your expertise and seeing so much of this, you're looking at my report and it looks pretty red.

Speaker 2: 56:00

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, just looking at your report, you know, I mean it led me to. Do you have gum issues? Do you have infective issues? Do you have gum issues? Do you have infective issues? Do you have inflammatory issues? I mean you can see a lot from this report. I can ask the great questions but, you know, as a scientist and not a practitioner, I don't have the answers.

Speaker 2: 56:26

Yeah have the answers? Yeah, but if I look at, is I look at the microbial profile, and I was able to discern all of that just from the microbes that we found from one tooth that was extracted from your mouth. I mean, that's crazy it is crazy absolutely crazy.

Speaker 2: 56:44

You know, and I did want to touch a little bit with your listeners on periodontal disease, it's known as gum disease. People may not know that it is caused by bacteria. They literally and if I'm a film dentist with my exclamation, the way that I understand it is it's basically pockets around the teeth. Okay, so it's areas between the gums and the teeth and your gums are there to hold your teeth in place. Where in these pockets, if you have gum disease, you have larger pockets and bacteria can cultivate there and you need special types of cleanings to really rid yourself of that flora.

Speaker 2: 57:36

In different bacteria there's eight or nine that are really prolific when it comes to periodontal disease and it could be that this is site specific in your mouth. I'm looking. You have trepidating magenta cola, um, mine is endodontalists, um, fused bacteriums. These are all related to inflammatory processes and gum disease. Dna connections has a smaller panel. It's called the Periodontal Health Panel and it looks at the eight most prolific organisms involved in periodontal disease, because you can brush and floss and rinse and water and you could still suffer from periodontal issues. So in that case, not only can you say I'm going to look at the bacteria that causes periodontal disease in general. But, miss sandy, you can look at these organisms in your mouth that are the culprit of your specific case of periodontal disease and work on microbial control in a species-specific manner.

Speaker 1: 58:55

In a species-specific manner. How do you do that?

Speaker 2: 59:00

Well, you would talk to your practitioner because, remember, each of these organisms have generalized treatment recommendations. So if you have, let's say you know of the species that comes from periodontal disease, let's say that Orchid minus Endodontalis, which is one of your higher organisms, you can look at specific treatment methods just for this particular species and target that species.

Speaker 1: 59:33

That's interesting. Here's a question. Okay, you mentioned a couple of different tests. So after you have this one where you're testing the actual root canal tooth and I gave you two roots as well, there were two roots and then the tooth with the crown, everything and you have other tests, like you said, the floss. What was that test?

Speaker 2: 1:00:06

So the oral panel, this comprehensive oral panel can be ran on basically any sample in the mouth and if you're having a root canal tooth extracted, we sent you a tooth kit. If you're having a cavitation area cleaned out, then we send you a blood kit. It's just, really just the size of the plastic ware, so any sample can be run on the oral panel. All the panels that we offer can be run on a sample type called Super Floss. So Super Floss, it's really thick, it's really absorbent. It's made and captured by Oral-B. We take it, we sterilize it, you get a kit. It has the floss in an autoclave packet. You wash your hands thoroughly. You wake up in the morning, you floss your teeth with our product and you put it in the flosser square, send it back to us. So you can do a site-specific, say like number 30. You can floss around, really get down in there, really get subgingival with this highly absorbent big floss, and you can do site-specific or a full mouth serving.

Speaker 1: 1:01:22

That's interesting because then you can kind of see what kind of stuff is lingering in the mouth area and what might be an overgrowth. Because, logically, if we took out the offending I don't know if I should call it an organism, because it's restoration, because it's dead, it's living if you take that out technically, then all the bacteria that's within my mouth should go down right. Would that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

yes and no. If there were certain bacteria or organisms that were attracted to this area of inflammation and they were only there because, like you, have this kind of dead area, the root canal tooth, and it's gone, then yes, in theory some of the organisms that were only present because of that root canal tube will diminish. But then again, some people just have a really robust floor. For example, you know, I always go back to this gentleman this would be my dad and he's like you. He had one cavity his entire life. He had, you know, and and he's very healthy, he eats organic, he lives off the grid, he grows his own food. So I would do oral panels on him and, unbelievably, they were the worst oral panels I have ever seen. Really 45, 50 organisms and we're like I don't believe it. This is crazy, right, because you would think the less bacteria, the healthier you are.

Speaker 2: 1:03:22

Okay, so he had this issue. He had a staph infection, a really bad staph infection, where they put him, sorry, oral panel after oral panel, consistently this is 24 organisms. I mean, imagine this grid has to go to the second page because he had like 45, 50, even over 50 organisms. So he had this infection and he was in the hospital. We thought he was going to lose his leg that's how bad it was and they put him on prolific IV antibiotics to fight whatever it was that was causing this infection, causing this infection. So he overcame it, he was out of the woods and I said great, let's do a series of oral hands and see what happens. So, after being on these highly prolific intravenous antibiotics, we did his oral handle and he was down to like 10 organisms. There was nothing there. It completely wiped out his flora, good and bad, and over the months and over the years that followed he built right back up to that 50 plus.

Speaker 1: 1:04:39

Interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:04:41

Some people just have a very robust flora that doesn't affect them, their oral cavity or their body systemically. Some people just do. Wow so that's why we say every panel that we do needs to be taken into account with what we find and patient symptomology.

Speaker 1: 1:05:09

Is it okay if I stop sharing this, leslie? Yeah, okay, because I think this is really important, what you just mentioned. So two of the courses that I took in college in nutrition college were on symptomology, just specific symptomology were on symptomology, just specific symptomology. And what you said there made so much sense about your dad, because I do believe, and I, you know you it's like you're you're born with a very unique microbiome. Maybe it works for you. You know, this is why you know what I'm saying Like for you. You know, this is why you know what I'm saying, like maybe it works for you.

Speaker 1: 1:05:53

I just happen to have some real health challenges that you know I can surmise that came after the root canal. Is it a hundred percent because of that root canal? Well, I think the root canal might be one of the offenders one, but there could be multiple offenders. So this is just such an interesting conversation because it is science, but it's also about bio-individuality and how and symptomatology and all these things. So I think it's important for people to really have that self-awareness, like what's going on with me.

Speaker 2: 1:06:39

Right, and I know it's so hard to you know you've gone to a dentist for advice, for treatment, for care, care, and this person, who is educated, says you need this and it's really hard for a person to say I don't want that yeah you know what are my other options right?

Speaker 2: 1:07:03

one other thing that that's we can touch on really lightly, but I think is so important because we're talking I love that term, you just use bio individuality, okay, so there's a whole and dr blanchett might have brought this up about bio-competitability in dental materials. So we have a second laboratory here and we work with a serum sample of blood, blood serum sample and it's a protein and agglutination assay. So we are looking at what is in dental materials I mean common dental materials and how each person has different levels of reactivity through the components that are in dental materials. There's a lot of information on the website. It's called BioCom Literaries. Maybe that's the next panel we'll do on you. That panel is so interesting. We have what we call components and we have products. The components there's 78, soon to be 82. In like two weeks we're adding more. These are metals and non-metals. So cool Materials titanium, copper, lead, red man, organics like phenols and quinones. What are those in dental products? All right, like phenols and quinones. Why are those in dental products? So each one of these components comes up as least moderate or highly reactive to a patient's individual sample.

Speaker 2: 1:08:40

And then the second part of the report is our database of dental products and we add new ones every single day. We have over 11,000 dental products in our database. These are common products. These are products that your dentist uses, that my dentist uses, and so he says, okay, you need a crown, right? So what kind of crown is he going to give you? Does it have metal in it? Are you highly reactive to that metal? Is it a porcelain? Does it have aluminum in it? So each one of these products are listed by the specific product name and manufacturer. So let's say in that first part of the report you come out highly reactive to copper. Copper is a pervasive in dental materials. So in our database of 11,000 dental products that contains copper will be listed as highly reactive for you.

Speaker 1: 1:09:41

Okay that, oh my God, we are such geeks, aren't we Like? Look God, we are such geeks, aren't we Like? I love it, I love it. No, you know why. So, okay, I'm going to backtrack a little bit more. It's a lot. It's a lot Because here's the thing, and this is I think I've been called to do this, leslie Like, just bring attention to this.

Speaker 1: 1:10:10

It started with Dr Blodgett and what happened. Here's what's really interesting, and for all of you dentists I always say if this triggers you, then maybe you got to just take a look in the mirror, because I'm only just saying this, because I want to bring awareness so that it doesn't happen to other people. I had a tiny, so this was right. After I interviewed Dr Blodgett, I had a tiny, tiny little crack, and the dentist that did the procedure took the enamel off, said that he needed to do that in order to put a crown on it so that it saves the tooth. I developed a condition called condensing osteitis, so the reason he did it in the first place was I had just very mild sensitivity, and I love Dr Kelly Blodgett's approach to these things, where he's like if somebody has mild sensitivity, we might just do a little bit of bonding, you know, like not anything too aggressive. And one of the things that he said and it just so resonated with this is, he said you know, it's not the dentist's fault in 99% of the cases, because they're taught to almost treat the tooth like it's a piece of wood, but it's a living organism. So the tooth was treated like a piece of wood. Unfortunately for me and it's weird because I'm like here, I am already knowing about this and then I allowed that to happen, and then I developed condensing osteitis, which means it's just like inflammation into the bone. So then that same dentist said oh well, now you have to have a root canal. Yeah, and I said no, and then I took the whole tooth out. I decided to just take it out.

Speaker 1: 1:12:06

Now here's where we get into that whole thing that you were saying about the composite testing. And people who are listening to this are probably going to think I'm weird, but if you know who I am, you're good with my weird. I actually I actually I'm a big believer in muscle testing for myself to know if my body resonates with something or not. So I was toying with the titanium ceramic, titanium ceramic, and this is the big thing, remember I was saying I really trust my dental surgeon and he uses so there's some research I looked at it about certain alloys of titanium implants can cause problems in people.

Speaker 1: 1:12:57

So they suggest you know if you've got a dentist that has some back product that's God knows how many years old, that they just maybe they don't do a lot of implants right Like you have to be aware of this as a patient. So I knew exactly the brand the year, I knew everything about this titanium and I actually allowed for the titanium implant. But now, with this root canal extraction, I will do ceramic, because I don't believe that two metal titanium posts in my jaw are a good idea. And so testing for what did you call it Bio?

Speaker 2: 1:13:46

that is so crazy and valuable if you're going to get a ceramic implant, then we definitely need to do a biocon test on you because I would say, almost daily people call me and they say leslie, and say I'm allergic to titanium. I'm not a titanium implant, I'm allergic to titanium. So, respectfully, I mean, why is this possible? Probably not titanium implants? Um, usually 94, 95 titanium.

Speaker 2: 1:14:22

It is the amount of or the mixture of metals, like you just said, what is in that other five percent of that implant. That's what they're reacting to. So remember my example. Like, let's say you're highly reactive to copper, right. And then you said I did research on this implant, I know exactly what's in it is it know exactly what's in it. Is it two percent copper? We will be able to tell not only that you're highly reactive to copper, but we take what those each individual implant. I said we have 11,000 dental products when each individual implant is made out of, when we put it into our program that way. So if it has copper in it and you're highly reactive to copper, it ends up in your highly reactive section. Now I don't know about I mean, you know, I mean for years and years and years they were saying titanium implants are the best you know, this is the Cadillac of care. Now they're saying, oh well, it's ceramic implants.

Speaker 1: 1:15:35

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:15:36

Did you know a lot not all a lot of ceramic implants have found aluminum.

Speaker 1: 1:15:45

No, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2: 1:15:48

A base of ceramic implants is either aluminum oxide, aluminum silicate or alumina, which means that it is aluminum, but the aluminum atoms are chemically bound by other atoms, by other atoms. So a lot of dentists think that that means that it's chemically bound and therefore inert. But what happens over the life of that restoration, with chewing forces and temperature changes that the oral cavity is subjected to? So you know, not all dental implants, not all dental products are created equal. You know, not all dental implants, not all dental products are created equal. You know, and don't you want to know, before you have that implant placed.

Speaker 1: 1:16:37

Yeah, that's beyond, because who wants to go through that again? That is beyond brilliant, because here's the other thing. Because here's the other thing. I don't know if you saw my tooth, but you could see the crown, because this is like 19 years old. There was metal around. This is an old crown that they put on the root canal tooth and it was always a silver lining around it.

Speaker 2: 1:17:18

Silver lining around it, um so the crown probably also had metals. That was on that root canal tooth right, especially if it's not. I mean some crowns are like a solid block of porcelain or ceramic. Some they call pfm, which is a porcelain fused to metal, so it has a metal base with a white crown on top of the porcelain. So yeah, I mean likely.

Speaker 1: 1:17:35

Yes, because it was sold. Yeah, so I asked.

Speaker 2: 1:17:39

Yeah, there are changes.

Speaker 1: 1:17:41

Yes, and so I asked about this one, the crown that is on the titanium post. And it's so funny because I had to learn all of this Like I'm like what is an implant? Like what do they do? Like I didn't even understand it. I'm like you could put a post in my jaw. I'm like what is this bone grafting stuff? Like what is it made out of? You know, the thing that's really important to gain from this conversation this was such a good conversation, leslie is to question and ask everything. It's your right as a human being and your health to ask these questions and then find a practitioner that A doesn't get offended when you ask the questions, that B has some knowledge of like testing, like yours, so that they can say, okay, let's piece all this together and get the right protocol and plan for your best health. So I just love what you guys do. I love that you do all these different tests that really support our dentists, our doctors. I just love it.

Speaker 2: 1:19:04

Yeah, I mean it is it's support for patients, it's support for practitioners. I mean it is it's support for patients, it's support for practitioners. You know I tend to scare people a little bit, but you know, knowledge is power.

Speaker 1: 1:19:21

I'm with you, you didn't scare me. I mean, you kind of did, you kind of did. But then I'm like, but at the same time I actually wasn't that surprised either because of the things that I've learned about root canals. I, you know, I'm not telling everybody to go out and you know, although there is a documentary, root Cause and it was very much poo-pooed by, I think, the American Dental Association, it's very criticized. But I ask, I tell everybody, put your critical thinking cap on, watch it and just kind of learn and take what resonates with you from that documentary.

Speaker 2: 1:20:16

Exactly, exactly, and you know everything that we've talked about here today.

Speaker 1: 1:20:21

You know food for thought yeah, yeah, so much literature out there.

Speaker 2: 1:20:26

There's, you know, panels that you can look at. We're here I mean, I've been here at DNA Connections for just a little over 10 years and you know we're always working for new panels and you know just to bring awareness to a huge part of people's health care that they've never thought of in that terms, that terms yeah, and think of all the things that you can prevent, because I'm always about prevention.

Speaker 1: 1:20:54

It's so much better before you know you get a diagnosis. So absolutely yeah. So please, let us know where we can find you, where we can get information, where we can, you know, get your kits, because you have the Lyme tests, which you're very well known for. Let us know.

Speaker 2: 1:21:17

So everything, the two labs are in the same building, beautiful Colorado Springs. One is DNA Connections, and so that's D-N-A-C-O-N-N-E-X. That's an X for you and that's for making the connection between overall health and microbiology. And the second laboratory for that serum biocompatibility is BioComplex B-I-O-C-O-M-P-L-A-B-S.

Speaker 1: 1:21:49

Awesome, and I will have these links in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for coming. I love this conversation. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to share it with someone you know might benefit and always remember when you rate, review, subscribe. You help to support my content and help me to keep going and bringing these conversations to you each and every week. Join me next week for a new topic, new guest, new exciting conversations to help you live your best life.